720K floppy

PCjr discussions !
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I have one of Chuck's 3flop boards on my Jr with a Gotek as the drive A: and an external 3.5" drive. I have added the /D2 switch to the jrconfig driver in config.sys and also added the device=driver.sys /d1 /f:2 /h:2 /t:80 /s:9. I am running MS-DOS 3.3. The driver loads fine and I am able to read a disk in drive B: however if I try and format a true 720k floppy disk it only formats as a 360K. If I try using the format b: /f:720 switch I get an invalid parameter error. Is there something I am missing?
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

What type of 3.5 drive is it ? I know I had some issues with certain drives.
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

The drive is a Panasonic JU-256A227P.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

This is a 1.44 drive , if I remember I had issues getting these to work,
But mine is also a JU256A227P, but I use DOS 5.

Upgrade to DOS 5.0 as I did and it should work, maybe even Dos 4.

PS you will need to be aware of the DOS 5 requirements for BOOT disk,read my front page SOFTWARE for DOS5Patch item.
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I have read up on modifying DOS 5 so I will give that a try in the near future.

Thanks
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

Having a hard time updating to DOS 5 on the jride. I have modified a DOS 5 boot floppy and it boots DOS 5 fine from that floppy. I can then format the Flash card on the jride with the /s switch to transfer the operating system but once that is done, I cannot modify the boot sector of the Flash drive. I just get an error unable to write boot sector. I have tried a couple different Flash cards, IBM DOS 5.02 and MS-DOS 5.0. I even went completely through a DOS 5.0 setup and it completed successfully but still errors out when trying to modify the boot sector. This same machine using the same Flash card works fine with DOS 3.3.

Not sure what to try next.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

You need to boot from DOS 3 or 4 then perform the patch... on the Target Drive...

Be sure the DEBUG is for that Dos version...
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

OK I started from the beginning. I first removed any partitions on the drive (using the debug program) and then booted with a DOS 3.3 disk and using the DOS 3.3 debug,I modified the PC-DOS 5.02 boot disk and I also modified the format.com program. I then copied the jrconfig.sys to the DOS 5 boot floppy and created a config.sys with the stacks=0,0 and the device=jrconfig.sys entries. I rebooted using this PCDOS 5 boot disk and the system booted fine. To verify my modifications to format.com were working, I formatted another 5.25" floppy disk with the /s switch, copied of the jrconfig.sys and config.sys files and successfully booted with the newly created DOS 5 boot disk as well.

Next I booted with the original DOS 5 boot disk I modified and ran FDISK. FDISK just hung the machine. I then tried to used the DOS 5 Debug to clear the partition tables and debug just hung as well. I then booted with DOS 3.3 and ran FDISK and it started fine so I created a 30Meg partition and set it as active. I swapped in the DOS 5 boot disk and booted the system. I ran the mo9dified format program with the /s switch and the 30Meg partition formatted and transferred the system files with no issues. I verified that the C: drive was accessible and copied the config.sys and jrconfig.sys files to the C: drive and rebooted. The system ran the initial startup where the jride BIOS signs on and then it hangs with the HDD LED on solid. There is also some screen corruption.

So still no joy with DOS 5.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

Initially I used the SD Card on my JRIDE but after a few weeks, it started to act up and I lost a bunch of subdirectories etc and
then the DIR cmd showed crap as well, so I chunked it for a 'real' hard drive......

if you have a real drive, 'see my front page on my model in the jride build'. try one..

I have had no luck with the SD cards in 2 of my JRide's...

but it sounds like you are doing all things right it may just be the Sd card..
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I will try a regular mechanical drive but first when the floppy controller Ryan sent arrives I will put together that computer and try it on there to eliminate the Jr. as the issue. Strange it would work flawlessly with DOS 3.3 but not with DOS 5. Hmmm, I forgot I have an SD Cartjr with a boot ROM. I may try that with the JRIDE removed yo see if it will boot DOS 5 from it.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

This is good experimentation so keep the progress going....

as I mentioned my experience with SD Cards were dismal at best....Twice had to reformat after a corrupted directory...

but I know others seem to be ok, maybe it was just the usage and programs I was running... who knows.. :)
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I tried loading PC-DOS 5 on the SD CARTjr and it worked initially. I followed the same procedure I did with the JRIDE. One quirk is that I had to partition the drive using DOS 3.3 as the fdisk program in DOS 5 just hung the machine. After partitioning, I booted with the DOS 5 disk and used the modified format program to format the SD card and transfer the system and then copied over a config.sys and jrconfig.sys. I then copied over the rest of the DOS 5 files, added a new config.sys and autoexec.bat and a number of programs and utilities in various directories. I tried the DOS 5 fdisk again and it still hung the machine so I booted with a DOS 3.3 boor disk and ran the DOS 3.3 fdisk and it showed a 30M Non-DOS partition??? I rebooted from the SD card into DOS 5 and ran different programs and they all worked well but when I looked at one of the directories it had some corruption so I removed the files in that directory and the directory itself. Now the system just hung after initializing the SD card and would not boot again from the card.

Just a note, this is with no JRIDE but has a modified IBM 128K memory expansion with 512K (plus the 128K in the Jr itself). I have a number of other things I want to try including a real mechanical hard drive with the JRIDE. The fact I cannot get the DOS 5 Fdisk to run is strange. Using DOS 3.3 fdisk limits the partitions to 30Meg but more concerning is the fact it reports back as a non-DOS partition and as such will not allow me to create any extended partitions.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

it sure sounds like a mech drive is needed.....

Have you looked at the Pull Up/Pull Down resistors Iused on my JRide ?

Do you have a Parallel Side car attached ?
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I have seen your resistor mod and yes there is a Parallel and a Speech side car attached to the system before the JRIDE. One of the things I was going to try is running the JRIDE by itself. Just have to find some time. The thing that confuses me is if it were a hardware issue, why does DOS 3.3 work without issue but not DOS 5?

Does your version of the JRIDE implement the pullup resistors?
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

I would take the Par and Speach car off to get it working.
I have t think it is the partitioning that allows 3 to work.

But I do know IBM Dos 5.0 works so just need to figure this out.

did you say you have a 5.25 floppy with Dos 5 working to boot ok ?


Yes my Rev C has the pull UP/DOWN on the board.....

also look at this post from Todd

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=18
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

I haven't had a chance yet to try without the speech and parallel but yes I do have a DOS 5 boot disk working as well as the modified format program. I did read Todd's post and I also used his debug script to clear off the flash cards. As I mentioned, I did have DOS 5 booting and running from the SD-CARTjr but it eventually corrupted and would no longer boot, so as you say, DOS 5 dos work. I just need to get it more stable. I have found a 60G 2.5" IDE drive to try and still waiting for parts to assemble another Jr so lots of things to try yet.

Thanks for the help.
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

Ah good.... I suspect the add on carts may be trouble..

Also ck you 5V at the JRIDE card to make sure it is not drooping,
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
User avatar
chuckphd53
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by chuckphd53 »

Just another point, doing the Pull updown mod is easy onthe Jride I have pictures in another Topic...
“I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book.” (AE)
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

Well I tried the JRIDE all by itself and went through the whole setup again. Cleared the card with debug, booted from my modified DOS 5 floppy and ran FDISK which just hung the system. Rebooted with DOS 3.3 and cleared the card one again with debug then ran DOS 3.3 FDISK and created a 30M partition and made it active. Rebooted with DOS 5 and formatted the partition with the /s switch and transferred the system files successfully. Rebooted and the system just hangs when trying to boot from the card. Rebooted with DOS 3.3 floppy and ran FDISK which reports a 30M non-DOS partition. Checked the 5V and it is fine. Waiting for a cable to try a mechanical drive.
RLumpy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 9:26 pm

Re: 720K floppy

Post by RLumpy »

Still waiting for the IDE cable but I did solve the 3.5" formatting problem. I ran across some info that said you have to format the drive letter that is setup by driver.sys not the B: drive. For example, on my system when it boots, driver.sys sets up the secondary floppy drive as drive D:. So if I format drive d: with no parameters it format correctly as a 720K. Once formatted the disk can be copied to as drive B: or D: and it will treat it as a 720K disk. You really only need the D: drive to format a disk and you don't need to use any switches in the format command to format it as 720K.
Post Reply